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The National Notary Bulletin

What Would You Do: The case of the underage fiancée

By Michael Lewis on October 10, 2018

The Notary Hotline receives hundreds of calls daily from Notaries nationwide who find themselves in challenging situations. To boost your knowledge of Notary standards of practice, we’ve created a series of scenarios based on actual situations and ask a simple question: What would you do?

Every now and then, Notaries encounter situations that raise red flags. It could involve a suspicion of undue influence, a conflict of interest or fears of fraud.

In this scenario, drawn from a real-life episode, imagine you’re visited by a mother, her 16-year-old daughter and the daughter’s 30-something boyfriend. The boyfriend asks you to notarize the mother’s signature on a parental consent form granting permission for the daughter to marry him. He hands you the document, which is already signed.

The mother remains quiet and lets the boyfriend do all of the talking. You attempt to engage the mother in conversation, but she only shrugs and mumbles one-syllable answers. The boyfriend presses you to notarize the form.

What would you do?

Members of the NNA community frequently share accounts of suspicious, dubious or improper situations, and it is not always clear how they should respond. In this case, there are hints of possible undue influence or coercion.

To participate in this week’s “What Would You Do?” scenario, share your answers in the comments section below. We may mention your response in next week’s Bulletin when we offer the best possible answer(s) to this notarial challenge.

When to say 'no' … and when refusing a notarization is not allowed

What Would You Do Answer: The case of the senior signer

What Would You Do Answers: When a signer says she didn’t want to sign

View All: Best Practices

114 Comments

Add your comment

Mo Allen

12 Oct 2018

Not a chance! Move on!

L. Berner

12 Oct 2018

I would ask everyone except the mother to exit the room and I would speak to the mother alone. I would only notarize if the mother was absolutely certain that she wants to go through with execution of the document without outside pressure.

Linda Hambrick Robinson

14 Oct 2018

I think the safest was to exit this situation is to not notarize based upon an obvious language /communication barrier/refusal. I am a newly commissioned notary, 10-01/18, and I recall reading that both the notary and the signer must be able to communicate in the same language. Not to mention the other obvious reasons being that the document is already signed and the mother is not happy and disengaged from the activity Based upon the pressure that the boyfriend is applying would be all the more reason that my answer would be a direct and firm NO. I would definitely not spend another moment with this situation.

C. Lynch

15 Oct 2018

I would request the gentleman leave the room and see if I could engage the mother and daughter. If the gentleman refused to leave the room, and the mother and daughter refused to engage in conversation to determine if there were undue influence or coercion, I would refuse the notarization. If the gentleman made the situation in any way threatening, I would call 911 and report the possibility/suspicion of child endangerment. If the man forced the mother and daughter to leave the premises, I would attempt to note the license plate number.

Federico B Saiki

15 Oct 2018

I would try to engage the mother in a friendly question and answer dialogue and gently ask the gentleman to allow this to happen. If this doesn't happen I woul turn down the notarizing.

Julie N

15 Oct 2018

I would want to mother to re-sign to document and show identification before I would notarize anything. If she doesn't then I would not do it.

B Lively

15 Oct 2018

Not going to do it....not going to ask/let my staff do it!

JL Beam

15 Oct 2018

I would ask the daughter and fianc� to leave the room and proceed (or not proceed) after speaking with the mother.

Brenda Simmons

15 Oct 2018

I would ask the young man and young lady to step out of the room while i speak privately to the mother.

Walter Hertz

15 Oct 2018

I would refuse to Notarize. The signer apears to be forced. And the form has been already signed.

Walter Hertz

15 Oct 2018

I would refuse to Notarize. The signer apears to be forced. And the form has been already signed.

Celenda A Vargas

15 Oct 2018

In this case, I would ask to speak with the mother privately. If she gave me a realistic reason that she was acting like this, and indicated to me that she was truly there of her own free will and wanted to sign the document, I'd proceed. However, I believe it would be more likely, given the scenario, that she would continue to act the same way as earlier alone with me and would not give me clear answers to my questions, I would conclude that she was being coerced (or less likely, but always possible),and refuse to sign. I might even ask if she needed assistance as it looked as if she was in a dangerous situation...would she like to call anyone on my phone while her daughter's fiance wasn't nearby? (Hoping she would call the police for help.) If she said yes, I'd hand her my phone. If she said no, I would at least have offered assistance, which would give me a clear conscious. I won't do anything that will put me or others in danger, but in a situation like this, I won't just look away and hope for the best.

Julie

15 Oct 2018

First of all it is suspiciuos that the mom isnt talking herself. Second, the document is already signed which I would want her to sign in front of me! I would feel uncomfortable notarizing this unless the mom would talk! I am not sure if it is legal to marry a 16 year old in California!

Donna

15 Oct 2018

Would not attemp to notarize. If Mother can not verbalize that she understands and is in agreement to what is being notarized, remove yourself immediately.

Cheryl Willard

15 Oct 2018

I would not notarize the document that was already signed. If it was blank I would insist on a discussion with the mother who would be the person signing without the older man being involved before notarizing.

W. Winston

15 Oct 2018

I would follow my state's practices and not notarize the document because it must be signed in front of me.

Angie Brigham

15 Oct 2018

Refuse, it wasn't signed in front of you.

Shamay

15 Oct 2018

I would kindly tell them that I don't feel comfortable signing and ask them to leave.

Roxann L Rickey

15 Oct 2018

Ask the "boyfiend" to wait outside the office for a moment after I had explained I could not notarize a document not actually signed in front of me and politely explain that I would look and see if I had the appopriate blank form to provide a legal notorization. If they were unwilling to do this, then I would simply refuse to do the notorization. If he would wait outside, I would be certain the signature wasnt coerced before providing a notorization an if this seemed like a human trafficing situation, get law enforcement involved.

Mary Fahey

15 Oct 2018

I would ask the gentleman to leave the room. I would explain that I could not notarize the document without a private conversation with the mother.

Kathryn Williams

15 Oct 2018

If the mother refuses to respond verbally, I would never complete a notarization. She would have to sign in my presence as well.

Ms. McKenzie

15 Oct 2018

I would not sign the paper because the girl's mother is sitting in front of me and refuse to speak, maybe she was threatened and is afraid to speak because of the consequences she will have to ace.

Dorothy Lee Melton

15 Oct 2018

Nothing can be done in this situation unless the document is signed in front of the notary and both the mother and daughter have proper identification defining their relationship. The mother needs to produce the birth certificate or legal guardianship papers proving she has legal authority to grant permission. If there is a legal father I think he would need to grant permission also.

Jane Smith

15 Oct 2018

Just the fact that the mother is not fully in gauged in the conversation and it is her signature that I am notarizing, not a chance.

Vicki Randolph

15 Oct 2018

From the brief scenario provided I would refuse to notarize on the basis that I could not determine the signers' willingness to have signed that document, or even if they understood what they were signing.

Debra Gee

15 Oct 2018

No, I would not notarize the document.

Della

15 Oct 2018

I would inform them that because the document has already been signed, not in my presence, I cannot notarize the signature, nor can any other notary. A fresh, unsigned form must be provided by the person who is signing. The form must be signed in my presence. If I suspect there is coercion, I might require that the mother come to my office/signing area alone, so I can ensure in private that she is signing willingly.

Aleta Kazadi

15 Oct 2018

I wouldn't sign it. This is a morally challenged issue and if the mother can't even verbalize her consent, there is no way in God's Green world I would accept this.

Audrey Rose

15 Oct 2018

What Mo said...and call child protective services while I"m at it.

Sue Mohr

15 Oct 2018

There are dozens of red flags here, but the first one is that the document is already signed. To give this mother some time, I would ask for a new document and have her sign it in front of me. If at this time, the mother refuses, or I am unable to engage her in any further discussion, I would humbly advise them to seek another resource and I would close my Notary Book.

Sue Mohr

15 Oct 2018

DORIS LAUL

15 Oct 2018

I would ask both the "child" and the boyfriend to leave the room, since I am not notarizing their signatures. I would then have a bit of a "mother to mother" talk to see where the mother is with this. If my internal radar indicates she is under duress, I would explain to her the reasons for my refusal to notarize the document, and that although my refusal to notarize the document may cause some strain with the daughter, I am bound by my duty as a notary to refuse the notary.

Kimberly M. Coney

15 Oct 2018

First, I never notarize a signature unless I am present to see it done and see the Identification first. Second, why in the world would the mother allow the 16 year old to date a 30 years old is criminal. I would refuse to notarize and walk away. Not my business.

Audrey

15 Oct 2018

I would ask to speak to the mother alone.

Karen

15 Oct 2018

The article says the document was already signed, so you can just tell them that you can't notarize it because you must "witness" the signature.

Netty

15 Oct 2018

Already signed and the signer acting sketchy? No way.

Danielle Arnold

15 Oct 2018

No, I would never notarize this.

Krista Norris

15 Oct 2018

1. The paper is already signed. Not acceptable. 2. The mother is not actively engaged in the notarization. Not acceptable. I would not notarize this.

Andrea Hoxie

15 Oct 2018

Not only would I NOT participate in this, I would notify the department of Family Protective Services, or possibly even call the police.

Dawn

15 Oct 2018

I would not notarize it. My state requires the signer to sign in front of me along with being able to communicate with her. If there is no third party translator I would tell them to come back with a blank form and I will contact a translator to be present during the signing of the document.

Lindsay

15 Oct 2018

Here is my best idea: The first issue is that the parental consent form is already signed. Explain that the form must be signed in the notary's presence with acceptable ID to prove the mother's identity. Assuming they return with a blank form, I would request that the boyfriend and daughter leave the room to speak privately with the mother. She may be unhappy with the arrangement, but that doesn't mean she's being forced against her will to sign. If she can speak candidly with me and confirm her willingness to sign, I will complete the notarization. If she still refuses to communicate, I would not complete the notarization. If the notarization were completed, I would also leave a note in my journal regarding the mother's behavior and steps I took to ensure her free will in signing.

Carl D DeMatteo

15 Oct 2018

I would ask both the mother and the boyfriend to leave and try to ask the girl some questions, then I would bring in the mother to ask questions of her and her daughter. To make sure that there is no coercion

Brandi

15 Oct 2018

Since the form is already signed, can't be done. But just to check on things, I would make the boyfriend step out of the room so I could speak with the ladies. If he refused, a simple call to 911 could solve the problem.

James C Martin

15 Oct 2018

I would kindly ask the daughter and boyfriend to leave the room to talk to the Mother/signer alone. I would then ask questions pertaining to the document that was already signed. Did she sign it? Does she know what she signed and what it means? Did she sign it of her own free will or not. The responses to these questions would determine whether I would proceed to notarize the document or not.

Cheryl Crowder

15 Oct 2018

Because the mother is required to sign the form in my presence, I could not and would not legally notarize the document. If the older fiance insists that the document be notarized, I would respectfully decline. If the situation escalated, I'd call 911

Joan Stanley

15 Oct 2018

Absolutely not! First, the document must be signed in front of me. Also, if I cannot converse directly with that person for whom my notary is being requested to stand for than in no way can I notarize a document for that person in return. Open communication must be a two way street in order to evaluate whether any undue duress exists. Additionally, the hint that the boyfriend did all the talking and attempted to press the notary is a huge flag to decline them, document your decline and get away from the situation as quickly as possible. I would also consider reporting the attempt to state notary authorities.

Keila Dewey

15 Oct 2018

Report the intended groom to the local authorities immediately for child abuse. Clearly, he is threatening the mother and abusing the child. Contact your local domestic violence/sexual assault hotline for services for both mother and daughter.

Robert S. Beck

15 Oct 2018

I see 3 flags on this one. First, the document was NOT signed in front of me. Second, you get the sense she is being coerced and under duress. Third, the fact that she won't engage in a conversation puts into question her mental state to be able to understand and sign any document! I think most of you are missing the last one. Is she mentally there and able to make good decisions?

Gracie Doerter

15 Oct 2018

It was already signed - I do not notarize a doc that is not signed in my presence. I can also ask the "gentleman" to step out - respectfully of course.

Markus Jones

15 Oct 2018

I would kindly decline the notarization until I the mother could present court documented consent via emancipation by a judge and a marriage license if a wedding were to take place in the near future. I would also request participation from the mother in a private setting before I would notarize her signature; (whereas the document should not be signed until I have witnessed and ID'd all involved or interested parties)... Some states allow a minor to marry at 16 and some states emancipate teenagers at 16 under state regulations or special circumstances, such as marriage, etc.

Stacy Lynn Shannessy

15 Oct 2018

I believe there is more than one step to this question, First I would ask for the ID's of all the participating parties, and make copies, that way if there is any problem, I would have the Identification prior to whether I refused or not. My next step would to ask them to wait patiently so i can check the state Laws on marrying a minor, I believe giving this space of time to research, they would personally review there position in this decision. If it is in fact legal, I would ask to speak to each individual alone to make sure no one is under duress or danger. If all parties agree this is what they want and it is legal and I do not feel anyone is being threatened into this decision I would notarize a blank document, and not the document that came in already signed. These would be my conditions, take it or leave it. I do not personally agree a 30 year old should marry a 16 year old, but this is in fact my opinion, which is not for me to make a decision based on my personal views, as long as all the laws are obeyed, the document is blank all Id's are shown, all went well with the one on one interviews, I do not see any reason why I would refuse my services. If there were ANY of these things were not acceptable, I would refuse.

Nancy Houser

15 Oct 2018

I would ask to speak with the mother, privately. If the parties refused or if the mother will not answer questions, I would inform them that I was not confident that the mother was willing giving her consent and will not do the notarization. Also, being a mandated reporter, I would notify CPS of the situation.

Keri Meerbergen

15 Oct 2018

I would tell the man/boy to take a hike!

Keri

15 Oct 2018

I would tell the man/boy to take a hike

Randi Luscombe

15 Oct 2018

#1, ask the man to leave & wait in his car, #2 ask the daughter to wait in another room, #3 ask the mother if this is really what she wants, #4 if she says yes, call the daughter and the man back in and explain that since the mother has already signed this document, and as part of the notary duties, I must witness the signature, they will have to come back with an unsigned form for me to witness her signature and then notarize that one, IF the mother also has proper identification & the daughter's birth certificate. #4 notify the other notaries in my area of what has happened here. #5 notify LEO's that this may not be a legitmate situation.

Hayden

15 Oct 2018

Many people have the correct idea, that you need to speak to the mother alone and verify her willingness or refuse the notarization. Many people have the incorrect idea that the form must be signed in their presence, this is not the case for an acknowledgement.

Robert S. Beck

15 Oct 2018

Rebecca Woo

15 Oct 2018

I would try again to speak to the mother (alone) to see If she really approves of the daighter’s marriage to this man, and I would watch her body language. That said, I would most likely still decline to do the notarization.

Cecilio Moreno

15 Oct 2018

I would ask the mother if she signed it first and ask for Id to confirm she is the signee. I would also confirm in my Notary primer or make a call to the notary hotline to verify how to proceed.

Nancy Lomac

15 Oct 2018

I would have to politely refuse the notarization because I didn't witness the mother signing the document.

Gerald Selby

15 Oct 2018

Walk away.

Anita Zeigler

15 Oct 2018

I would not notarize the document because I did not witness the signatures.

Wendy Bailey

15 Oct 2018

I wouldn't notarize due to coercion from the boyfriend.

Warren Wright

15 Oct 2018

No, I wouldn't notarize the document. If you do, I believe you open yourself up either to some criminal action (minor) or a civil lawsuit.

Jean Kerr

15 Oct 2018

I would not notarize the consent. Being a parent myself, I feel a 16 year old is too young to get married and should be concentrating on graduating from high school and on to college.

Wendy Putonti

15 Oct 2018

I’m sorry the document has to be signed in front of me with proper identification. If that is done make a note in the journal of the situation.

ehurtado@huitt-zollars.com

15 Oct 2018

First of all, it was mentioned that the document was already signed, so that's a big "No, No". My Red Alert Question is "why is the boyfriend is doing all the talking?" Second, why is the mother seem happy or at least comfortable with the situation. My instinct as a mother, a representative of a formal document and that sense of something not being right would make me Not notarize the document.

Dida Kutz

15 Oct 2018

I would not notarize and also contact child protective services.

Christine E.

15 Oct 2018

Since the document is already signed, I would ask for the Mother to resign the document in my presence and ask for ID as well. If the Mother refuses, then I would go no further and remind them that the law states that documents must be signed in the Notaries presence. If the Mother did resign, then I would go from there, based on how she acts going forward, etc. I do agree with the others that if the boyfriend seems threatening in any way then the authorities need to be notified of possible child endangerment. It also seems the Mother might be in some kind of danger or under the threat of the boyfriend as well.

Jan C

15 Oct 2018

1. Explain the document must be signed in front of me. In my state, the signer may sign next to the original signature in my presence. 2. Ask for and peruse the appropriate identification documents of the signer 3. Require the man and daughter either leave the room or the signer and I can leave the room to establish full consent of the signer. Once all of the above has been done and I am comfortable with the signers willingness to sign, I would notarize the document. If the participants refuse even one of the above actions, no notarization would be conducted. My explanation would consist of quoting my states notary rules in reference to presence and willingness to sign. We, as notaries, must remember, whatever the document contains is not our business. We only must verify all spaces are filled and that the signer is who they say they are. We cannot make judgments as to the legality of the contents of the documents. We cannot make moral judgments as to the contents.

Shanna

15 Oct 2018

I would turn directly to the Mother for her response as to whether or not she willingly signed the document. If she continues to shrug her shouldes or looks uncomfortable, or the boyfriend continues to step in to force words then I would have no other choice but to refuse to notarize the documents.

Cynthia Jennings

15 Oct 2018

I used to also be a wedding planner and this would be a huge red flag for me. I would endeavor to talk to the mother and bride-to-be alone to get more information, but if I couldn't, the fact that the form is already signed, outside of my presence, I wouldn't notarize it. I don't believe I would notarize it anyway.

Diane

15 Oct 2018

I would ask the man and the daughter to please leave the room so I could talk to the mother and find out if she knows what she's signing, and does she want to sign this document. Then do what the mother says are her decisions.

Alwayslrng7

15 Oct 2018

1st...as a notary for 22 years....many ppl have shown up at my door with documents they already signed.....bc they filled out the forms fully wanting to get it done... with no intent to trick anyone. (I blame them not knowing to wait on lack of public education....DO YOU EVER RECALL BEING TOLD IN SCHOOL - TO NOT SIGN A DOCUMENT THAT NEEDS A NOTARIZATION UNTIL YOU ARE IN THE PRESENTS OF THE NOTARY!? Majority of ppl do not know this unless they were told by someone which does not normally happen. So...to those notaries who tell ppl they must come back with a document 'NOT' signed ...hope you never do something you were never instructed on! Seriously show some common sense within a matter! I ask a couple of questions before notarizing any pre signed document....again most ppl sign not knowing they were to wait...you will see this in their answering you. So inform them, so they know for the future. Plus in Penna (most states with acknowledgment notary laws)....someone can sign an Acknowledgment years ago and show up at your door and say...hey, I signed this document in 2001...that signature right there...that is my signature. Well, awesome, show me some current Identification...sign this blank form...if signatures are similar, I notarize, and take a photo of Id and form I just notarized for my records. So don't presume ppl know...you probably didnt before you became a notary. Now, if an attorney shows up at your door with a document asking you to notarize it...there is a 'what would you do' question.

Patricia Bernier

15 Oct 2018

I would not notarize a document that was already signed. I would request a new document and witness the mother signing.

Tanya

15 Oct 2018

Since it is only the mothers signature that is being notarized, I would ask that everyone else leave the room so I could speak with her directly. Only at her personal request would I notarize her signature.

Alwayslrng7

15 Oct 2018

2nd....in this senario.... question the mother alone...I would suspect 2 things, either dd boyfriend, dd, and/or mother got into an argument before arriving...or dd boyfriend or dd corrosion to the mother. if 1st senario...mother should lighten up with the other 2 out... if 2nd...and mother still stressed, then offer help where you can...but I would not notarize with mother in stress and clearly not willing. Unfortunately, not much more can be done... if the mother is feeling forced, we may have created residual stress to her (or possibly to her dd) while protecting ourself, which unfortunately, maybe the case after they all leave. All we can do is hope and pray that if it is an evil situation that they will act however they can, so it will be removed from them. Also, calling protective services on a thought, not based on fact, can also cause more harm then good...I have seen that FACT over and over....and guess what, you can be held liable for bearing false witness against someone with your presumption. So stop presuming...there are at least 2 sides to every story...if you didnt get all sides...then you are only truly guessing!

Mike C

15 Oct 2018

I would do my due diligence, and ensure that the mother knows the consequences of these actions. And I would also ensure that the mother is also competent, to ensure that we are able to make an informed decision.

Ruth M Uribe

15 Oct 2018

First of all, one of the applicant already signed, so that's a big NO! All applicants must sign in front of you. How would we know if he didn't forge her signature. And second of all obviously the mother is in some kind of disagreement if she is not talking. So I would not notarize this document...

Ali Schulze

15 Oct 2018

I would refuse to notarize. The scenario implies suspected coercion, which gives grounds for refusal.

Corinne Gillespy

15 Oct 2018

Absolutely not. The document was not signed in my presence.

gwen

15 Oct 2018

in this type of situation I always advise the person talking that I need to speak to the person getting the notarization only....I thank them for their help but they will have to sit somewhere else so I can do my job properly....

Linda Marrone

15 Oct 2018

Notarial duties state that an acknowledgement must be taken verbally by the notary from the signer that they are signing this document freely and of their own volition, voluntarily and without undue pressure or influence. No one can speak for them, but, they MUST state this verbally to the notary. If they cannot, then don't notarize the form. If the "older boyfriend" is insistent and interruptive, then, don't sign the form and tell them they will need to seek a notary elsewhere. We are not law officials or attorneys. The extent of our authority ends with the verbal affirmations clearly stated by the signers. As a matter of course and good conscience, however, I will NOT notarize a form if I sense any kind of coercion in play.

MzFxIt

15 Oct 2018

First things first, as the gentleman is not the signature, I would ask if he was familiar with the purpose of a Notary and how Notarial Services worked. He was only a party of the document, not a signatory or a co-signatory. Therefore not only he has no authority to speak on anyone's behalf, i could not, otherwise legally engage him or anything he states, and I most certainly would not validate and affirm any instrument signed out of my view that I did not personally witness, particularly given it is unethical and illegal to do so. I would explain those legalities to him and excuse him from my area and request that he wait at a location out of earshot, even in another room if possible. Which of course will gain his ire and resistance. But he would leave, either willingly or not. Following his departure, I would engage the Mother as to what her wishes were, ask if she'd like to secure the authorities and if ask if an order of protection was required. And ask a few question of the young lady based on her behavior, her interactions with her mom and he actions/reactions to the gentleman in question. I actually had a similar incident happen early in my career. The gentleman didn't budge when I asked him to leave ---nicely. He actually though he could intimidate me by leaning into and over my desk but boy was he caught off guard when i stood up and leaned so close into him he though we were going to kiss. And I asked if he had a problem with my instructions and required further assistance, I then told him I'd be more than happy to demonstrate, in fact I was looking forward to it since I'd missed my morning exercises. He backed off and complied and left, the female wanted an escort when I asked if she felt threatened and the Sheriff came and took over from there. I do not know the outcome once they left.

Allie C

15 Oct 2018

In California, there would have to be the approval of a Superior Court Judge, if I am not mistaken? So, one parent and the judge. So a regular notary wouldn't be able to do it/

Hugh

15 Oct 2018

I would stick to the basics: Who is the customer, what do they want me to do (I think "notarize" means "acknowledgment" in this case), do they understand the document and want to sign it. Are they able to convince me they are who they say they are (ID)? The other people in the situation don't count.

Virginia Davis

15 Oct 2018

I can understand young love, but what I don't understand is a mother not protecting her daughter. If I had even a minor thought that something was not right, I wouldn't go through with the Notary action. I might, if I felt there was something very wrong, step outside, saying I had to verify an action on a call, alert the police that this was in progress and request a police social worker be present for a conversation with the mother before going any further. Since the girl is a minor, sometimes it takes a village...

Nancy E.

15 Oct 2018

If I could not speak to the mother alone I would have to refuse the request.

Andra Michalski

15 Oct 2018

I would inform them all that I need to witness the signature and ask her to resign. If I sensed she was uncomfortable, I would word it in such a way that I need to witness the signature and kindly ask the other parties leave the room for privacy. I could then ask her if she was being coerced and if so, stop the notary. If she is not and her signature matches, I would have to continue the notary.

James Jensen

15 Oct 2018

Most of the responses I read have pretty much offered the same opinion. They would not notarize a document that was not signed in their presents. I feel the same, even though notarizing an acknowledgement that is already signed is legal in Arizona. I also agree that if I could not speak with the mother alone to verify that ...1. She had signed the document, and 2. that she had done so willingly...I could not in good conscience Notarize that Document.

Myra

15 Oct 2018

I would try to engage the mother in answering a few questions if she refused or just opted not to say anything I would not move forward with the notarization.

Bill Sudol

15 Oct 2018

Ask daughter and man to give you & mom privacy. Have her sign again & initial. If she can’t converse, I would refuse.

Wendy Campbell

15 Oct 2018

First of all, I am shocked at the number of people who have stated they cannot notarize a document that was not signed in their presence. If you are a California Notary Public you should know that the requirement of signing in your presence depends on the type of notarial act you are performing; an Acknowledgment does not need to be signed in your presence and you can't refuse the notarization based on that criteria. A Jurat does need to be signed in the Notary's presence. The document should have the proper notary language and if it doesn't then the signer must advise the Notary which type of notarization is requested. Also, at least in California, it is not up to the Notary to question the legality or the morality of the marriage document. What is up to the Notary is to determine the Signer's willingness to sign and to confirm their awareness of what is taking place. Speaking to the signer in private can be one way of determining that they are signing of their own free will but according to the 2018 CA Notary Primer, "To confirm willingness, the Notary need only ask signers if they are signing of their own free will. If the signer does or says anything that makes the Notary think the signer is being pressured to sign, the Notary should refuse to notarize."

Kathy franklin

15 Oct 2018

I would try to get the mother alone . Then ask her if she is signing the document of her own free will. Also ask if the father is around to also sign.

Pam Mann

15 Oct 2018

The document is already signed, so no. The mother is not acting like she wants this to take place. No again. The smooth-talking "fiance" who seems to be pushing things forward. Third strike, they're out. Definitely wouldn't do it.

Edwin Nnodim

15 Oct 2018

In giving consent for marriage i will ascertain whether the father need to give consent. If only mother can give consent both shall excuse me to interview the mother. If she gives consent i will notarize the document otherwise i will refuse to do it.

Melinda Fields

15 Oct 2018

While sensing coercion and or endangerment and not wanting to possibly endanger anybody including myself, I would quote the law and point out that the signature must take place in my presence and proof of guardianship must be presented also. If that does happen or if it does not happen, I would call the law and report the situation and the uneasiness and unwillingness of the 'mother' to communicate.

Lewis Hughes

15 Oct 2018

First of all she signed the paper before coming to Notary that's a problem their. I would ask the other persons to please wait out side so I can talk to the mother then I would make my decision if the other party are not trying to fraud the mother in some way, then I would pull out a paper for the state of Florida that the mother has to sign where she and the daughter and her fianc� must sign then also this would make my make my dissection to finish the Notary if they say no, I would then say NO sorry can not do your Notary and tell them to go to the court house for further help.

Daniel W Nankay

15 Oct 2018

I wouldn't notarize the document unless l get the mother answer yes or no.

Kathryn H

16 Oct 2018

I would definitely ask the mother to meet with me alone, and verify her willingness to sign. I would have her sign it again next to the first signature, which would let me see if if was actually her that signed it the first time by comparing the signatures. Also, in California, this one document is not all that is legally required for a minor to marry. The minor and a parent must appear before a judge and obtain a court order, the minor must get pre-marrigae counseling, and a parent must accompany the minor to get the marriage license. I agree with Jan C. above, that the notary is only concerned with the signature and willingness to sign, and should not be concerned with the contents of the document or the ethics of the situation.

Judy Dickson

16 Oct 2018

Personally, I would refuse to complete the notary, explaining that before I can provide the service, the signer has to acknowledge that it is indeed her signature and that she understands the document.

Adaliz Martinez

16 Oct 2018

I would not notarize. 1st mistake, It states the boyfriend handed over the document, which is already signed. She must willingly sign in front of me and affirm she agrees.

Verne Gordon

17 Oct 2018

Since the mother had already signed the document, I would have taken her aside without the 'older man' and daughter and asked if she had willingly signed the document. In CA, if she had been coerced or was unwilling, I would have stopped the notarization at that point and perhaps called the authorities. From the mother being quiet, it could mean potentially that she was being forced to sign.

Lori Gaskill

17 Oct 2018

Because the document was not signed in my presence, I would refuse to notarize and instruct the mother to return alone with a blank form to be signed in my presence. At that time I would ask the mother if she is signing willingly and therefore gives her consent.

Joseph Phillips

17 Oct 2018

Ask all to leave the room except the singer. Question her to determine if she is being coerced and/or if she is competent as she seems to be showing signs of not being competent

S.E.

17 Oct 2018

I would not notarize because I the document, in naming the mother as :the mother", is stating a relationship/title that I have no proof of.

Lisa

18 Oct 2018

First, I would have the mother sign the document and provide proof of ID. Then, if she speaks the same language as everyone else (and myself) and does not need an interpreter, I would ask everyone else to exit the room except the mother. If the fianc� and daughter do not exit, I would not notarize due to undue influence or coercion.

Marisol M Fernandez

19 Oct 2018

There are many reasons why the mother is not signing the document, maybe she is being forced into the situation because her minor daughter is pregnant, maybe she is being threatened, too many possibilities thus I would ask to speak with the mother alone and try to get clearance. If after speaking to her, I still have doubt I would still refuse to sign since the man is 30 years old and the minor is only 16, if there has been intercourse I believe this would constitute statutory rape (I'm not an attorney, so this is not a legal opinion)

Cora Springfield

21 Oct 2018

First follow the laws, policies, rules and statutes of being a Notary. You must eyewitness the Signature of the signer especially if they are present. The mother is, but isn't talking. Document is signed before I arrived. That's a No. No. Secondly, what are the laws for marriage in that state for a teenager. I would only want to meet with the two parties the document is involving the mother, whose giving consent and the daughter who is agreeing with that consent. The man is Welcome to pay for it.

KHALID M RANA

21 Oct 2018

In this situation, signing the documents by the mother willfully is to be confirmed because the document has already been signed. Before notarization I would aske the mother to confirm her signature and show her valid ID. Parental consent for under age 16 years girl merrage with 30 years old man is suspicious so free will to sign is absolutly necessary. In this case the old man is talking insted of mpther for notarization of already signed consent so to confirm free will without any pressure or any kind of threat, coercion I will try to talk with mother in a separate room and if she confirms independently that she has signed the consent without in pressure or coercion then her signature will be notarized and get signed in Notary Register with valid ID no otherwise I will not notarize whatever the social situation is.

Lorre

23 Oct 2018

I will not notarize a document that was not signed in front of me.

Kitty

16 Nov 2018

Not a chance that I'm notarizing that document, in that situation.

Bob Greene

26 Dec 2018

To determine the correct answers and without causing an argumentative environment I would ask the older gentleman to leave the room while I proceeded with the mother's statement and signature verification. This will protect the mother and daughter from being forced to answer in a manner dominated by the older gentleman.

MisterJ

12 Jun 2019

I think the whole scenario was basically a trick question. The document was *already signed* when it was handed to you, and you aren't supposed to notarize a document without seeing the person actually sign their signature!

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