How To Record Multiple Notary Journal Entries For A Single Assignment

I have checked with a few different sources, California does not require separate journal entries for each notary on the same signing, however, it is recommended but there is no law in place.

This appears in the middle of your article so I need to get rid of it therefore I am completing it. Thank you.

Please show examples

Unfortunately for the professional Notary Signing Agent who follows the law and regs to the letter in CA: Title and lender packages I've seen lately have had 20-26 separate signatures to be notarized. This means that each document signature notarized must have a complete, separately written journal entry. Which I do comply with, but I know many local NSA's don't follow this rule and take short cuts. @Ray Leyva, this is not an easy nor quick process. I have discussed this with signing services at length and they will not pay more for these onerous signings. I should be receiving $10 per signature for the work involved. Ha, in my dreams! $100 total is the most they are paying for everything that must be done for a complex signing. This is another way that our work has been cheapened to the point of not being worth it. Since no one but no one will listen to reason, I now routinely turn down jobs when I know the pattern of that particular title company to request so many notarized signatures for so little money.

Hello. Please see this statement from the California Secretary of State's office on page 4 of the official 2014 Notary Newsletter (http://notary.cdn.sos.ca.gov/forms/notary-newsletter-2014.pdf) and linked in the article above: "Remember that you may be asked to provide a copy of a line item in your journal, which is why each line item entry must be complete. You cannot use hash marks, ditto marks, arrows, or other shortcuts."

I love the NNA. I will like to see it advocate for a multiple entry journal. In a husband and wife refinance Signing; with almost 10 documents needing notarization, we are required to have 20 line entries. Signers are getting upset in having to sign that many lines. They say and I agree that it is time consuming. NNA should have multiple checkable journal

In CA, does the non-use of dittos or arrows in notary book apply equally to both required columns (e.g. Ack vs. Jurat, date/time, ID) and optional columns (e.g. name/address of signer or address where notarized)?

I'm a California notary and while I respect the Calif Secretary of State's comments, this is not law. The notary's requirements can be quite onerous at a signing, often with more than 7 notarized signature per signer (with decreasing pay thanks to *&^%$#@! Snapdocs!). To answer Len Taylor, I use the Modern Journal of Notarial Events and it comes with check boxes for the common real estate/loan related documents (including indicating whether it's a Ack or Jurat), so even if 10 notarized signatures is needed, only 1 'line' in the journal needs to be completed (in most cases) per signer. If a copy is ever requested (in my 11 years, that has never happened), I would simply provide that one line item, since all the notarized signatures are related to that real estate/loan transaction and it's irrelevant if one sees the full list of documents notarized in that one transaction.

If a husband and wife, known personally, are signing multiple documents (Title & Loan Documents) is a single notary entry in the journal acceptable. Their Arizona licenses are kept on file?

I don't think the almost 5-year-old Statement" from the Secretary of State office is actual law. It is merely a one agency's interpretation, based on an improbable scenario, and is not an actual law. Making a separate journal entry for each individual notarization is impractical, time-consuming, and totally unnecessary, in my opinion. This requirement needs to be revisited and reconsidered as it places an unbearable burden on the notary with no increase in our fees. Title and lender, over the last few years, have been sneaking more and more requirements (scan backs or faxbacks, for instance) and refusing to pay additional fees for additional services! Now they are starting to demand that we take photos of IDs and signed documents and TEXT them back from the signing table! Since this function is one that causes extra charges for my cell phone, I refuse and tell them they have to accept scan backs when I get back to my office (for which I charge for the time involved!). When you total up the number of hours involved in a signing, from receiving and printing the documents, drive times to and from, actual time spent at the signing table, time to scan documents, package them, and drive to the drop site, then deduct actual overhead and expenses plus background checks, notary supplies, etc., then take those that total dollar figure and divide it by the actual fee paid and the final dollar figure, which is what we receive in payment for our work, you will see we are lucky to be getting less than half of the minimum wage. And the fees offered are getting lower and lower. I sat down with a woman who thought being a notary signing agent would be a good way to make some money. I showed her how to figure her business overhead, just like the IRS allows, and showed her how laughable the fees are, and explained how much time she will spend on each order. At the end of all the arithmetic, she saw she would actually receive less than 5 dollars an hour, and nowhere near the state fee for each notarization. She decided she had been sadly misinformed about how she could make a lot of money! To top it off, notaries who have been in the business fir many years are given pages of extra instructions from lender and title alike that are almost insulting! If the signing agent doesn't already practice these most basic things, they should not be hired! Makes me wonder why I keep doing it. It sure isn't for the money or respect! I have always been proud to be a professional in my work. Now I wonder why I bother. The only people who seem truly happy about my work are the borrowers I deal with! Sad.

Hawaii Notary Office does not interpret law for us. I understand "at length" but I fail to see how putting in the description that there were "three originals," etc, of the same document by the same signer, with the same I.D., does not meet the "at length" requirement. More to the at length should be taught to give more information in the document description, rather than only "deed," who is the grantee, and for what property (short description). That is the part that will prevent the loose certificate from being detached and reattached to another document all together.

Some comments about the discussion in this series: for those who question the validity of a "5 year old statement from the Secretary of State," or state that they "respect the SOS's comment," the SOS is the person/office that manages/permits notaries by STATUE, so any such document should be followed strictly. Saying that you don't have to follow them is like saying you don't have to pay attention to instructions from the IRS in their statements - see where that gets you. And unless there is a newer statement to replace it, the statements don't expire. The legal principal of stare decisis (law based on precedent and precedent is good until overturned no matter how old). Anyone doing real estate notarizations can simply point out to the loan people that the State of California authorizes a fee of $15 for EACH signature. Quote Government Code 8211 which specifies the fees. Since you have to record each item (Gov. Code 8206(2)(b)), each separate item is a separate signature and entitled to the $15 fee. In addition, if you are doing work other than what is required by statute, you should be entitled to an hourly compensation for anything other than the notarization. Making copies, etc., etc., is not part of the notarization process.

Oh man!!! I just filled up my first book in Hawaii.....and NOW read that I can't use ditto marks or arrows.....OMG! I do loan signings, each document and signer gets a line for each document, but I really have to write the signing location and driver's license over and over? The last refi I did had 3 signers and 24 notarized documents!!!! What will they do to me if I turn the book in as is?

Does anyone remember that we took an oath when becoming a notary? We are a public servant that will adhere to the law by the following the processes that are set by the Sec of State. We are trusted public servants. I do not recall there are provisions for us to make up our own processes. While I agree that this is a very time consuming process, it is not our decision on how to properly document the information. We are trained every 4 years on how to document the information and should be taken seriously. By justifying that you have never been asked for a copy in the time you have been a notary is not a reason to justify making a change to the process. Trust me when I say, I detest the time consuming, archaic process of multiple signatures, but it is not my authority to change it. I do not recommend taking shortcuts because at the end of the day, you would be the one responsible for not recording these entries correctly. I would think that taking a shortcuts would be a characteristic that would be considered being denied renewal. Challenging the process is acceptable but needs to be challenged to the right person, The NNA is not that place for this, contact your Sec of State to initiate change. Then when the changes are legally changed, you can fell satisfied that you were part of the process.

For Washington state: “If a notary public performs notarial acts involving different statements or documents for the same individual on the same date, the notary public may record a single entry in the journal for all of the statements or documents. The entry shall include the number of statements or documents notarized and shall otherwise conform to RCW 42.45.180 and these rules” (WAC 308-30-190[2]).

I read the Notary News article from the link: http://notary.cdn.sos.ca.gov/forms/notary-newsletter-2014.pdf The two items they are addressing is using ditto marks and lumping all documents and calling them "loan documents." It states a notary must complete all sections of each line item and not use ditto marks, arrows or other shortcuts to complete a line item. Under the bullet point "Character of each instrument" it states you need to identify each document that is notarized and not just identify them as "loan docs," meaning that a Name Affidavit and a Deed of Trust must be identified separately. But, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be on separate lines. The journal I use has the most common documents listed with the option of the certificate type (jurat or acknowledgement) and a space to write-in the name of a document not listed. For my loan signings I am identifying each document signed, collecting signer's signature, type of certificate, date/time of notary act and identification used to identify the signer. I don't interpret the states requirements to mean a separate line item for each document. If you read Government Code 8206 in its entirety, it does not require a notary to have a separate line item for every document, but does require that all documents notarized by identified, date/time recorded, type of identification used to identify the signer, signer's signature and thumb print for real estate documents such as deed of trust, quit claim, grant deed or power of attorney. I interpret what the government code to be requiring is line items to be completed fully and all documents notarized be listed. I believe my journal entries do comply without having to have a separate line (which is not stated in the code) for each document. This is based upon the Notary Public Handbook dated 2018.

I’m a California notary, There are many comments complaining about it being too time consuming to enter separate line items per document. I would like to say, yes, it is time consuming but IT IS YOUR JOB to be thorough as a notary. I do numerous estate plan signings and I enter separate line per document; Per person. I also get a thumb print for every document I notarize even though it is not required. At $15 per signature, it is the least I can do. I fill small details after I have left the appointment. Yes, I agree it is tedious, but necessary. My journal is complete.

Does the Signer's address have to be notated each and every time in our journal? I know we have to note a separate line item for each notarization performed and the Signers ID, but what about their address? I'm not clear on that part. I don't see anything in the article or Govt Code 8206 addressing their address. Also, what address do we put in our journal? The address on their ID or the address where the signing was performed?

WHEN I DO SEVERAL NOTIFICATIONS FOR ONE PERSON, I USUALLY DRAW A LINE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE LAST ONE TO THE TOP OF THE FIRST ONE AND HAVE THEM SIGN ACROSS THE LINE TO COVER ALL OF THEM, IS THIS OKAY TO DO?

A full time CA Notary for 17 years, I can tell you that California does indeed require a journal entry for each and every notarized signature. Professional notaries treat this as just part of doing the job properly. Anything less is less. Less is a shortcut and in my opinion, unprofessional. (Please don’t bother trying to dissuade me. I’ve personally signed over 19,800 Mortgage Loans and multiple thousands of individual documents since 2003. I know of what I speak).

Hello, Aida. To help us answer your question can you please tell us what state you are commissioned in?

"Each notarial act must be a separate journal entry, and each notarial act must include the date, time, and type of official act." Also: "Record, without abbreviations, all the information required by law to be recorded for each and every notarial act." I copied and pasted the above quote from another comment. I understand the separate line item part. What I don't understand is the part about "ABBREVIATIONS". What exactly is meant by that? Does that mean we cannot abbreviate ACK for acknowledgment, D.O.T. for Deed of Trust or SIG/NAME AFF for Signature/Name Affidavit, so on and so forth? If that is the case (no abbreviations in our Journals) then, I have a Journal that has ALL the check boxes with ALL boxes being abbreviated. Is this Journal ok to use for loan signings? Please explain this further.